Patti Smith and Steven Sebring

JULIE - Steven filmed you for eleven years to make the documentary Dream of Life. The film has received awards from both the Durban International Film Festival and the Sundance Film Festival. Through Steven’s camera lens you have shared your life as a multi-talented female artist, poet, musician and mother. How would you describe the experience of making the film? Why eleven years? 

PATTI - To me the eleven years was based on friendship. He shot me intermittently when he had film and when he could afford to. The eleven years have been filmed with friendship.   

JULIE - The film includes everything from the backyard scenes with your dog to an entertaining conversation on the beach with the musician Flea. Do you have any favorite scenes?

PATTI - I think seeing my mother and father, since both my parents have passed away. This is the only footage of my mother and father toward the end of their lives. Steven captured them both so well. I feel really lucky to have the footage... Seeing my children grow. Visiting the town that Arthur Rimbaud was born and buried in. I think the footage for that scene was beautiful.

JULIE - On Jan.5th, you and Steven celebrated the opening of your “Objects of Life” exhibit at the Robert Miller Gallery in New York. The show was filled with many photographs and personal artifacts. Can you tell us a little bit about what these Objects of Life are and what they mean.

PATTI - It’s a personal thing. It could be something as humble as my father’s coffee cup, which I cherish. Or it could be something quite valuable and old. For example, I travel with an expensive Russian ikon. Or some of my children’s books which are valuable and rare because I read and cherished them as a child, too. Therefore, these books are both valuable and old. My dress that I wore as a little girl. Sometimes it is just a stone that I picked up in a special place. All these objects have meaning. Precious things may be meaningless to another person but have a great value to another. We all have Objects of Life. 

JULIE - Your new book Just Kids was also released in January. I have yet to read it and was hoping you could tell me a little bit about it.

PATTI - The book focuses on our youth and the magic of youth. The book encompasses a little of our childhood, a little of Robert [Mapplethorpe] and I living in Brooklyn near Pratt Institute, and then some about how we moved to the Chelsea Hotel in 1969 and then on to the world. The photo on the book cover has great sentimental value. I think Robert and I were 22 or 23 years. It was our second anniversary together. We went to Coney Island to celebrate. An old man with a box camera took our picture. We were on the boardwalk and paid someone to take our picture. We were very happy that day. 

JULIE - Since moving to New York City in 1969, you have become part of the history of CBGB, Max’s Kansas City, and the Chelsea Hotel. How has New York changed the most since your early years in the city? Or is everything still the same?

PATTI - It is a lot more expensive now. It was easier to find a cheap apartment and get a job in the bookstore and not only survive but excel. It was easier to build an artistic community because it was more affordable. New York might be a little more touristy now. In the past it was more artist friendly. New York is a great city but has lost a little of its charm.

JULIE - After watching you paint with Robert in Dream of Life and seeing the artwork you produced with collaborators at Robert Miller, I began to wonder how you came to drawing and painting. Has it always been there for you or did it come after you found an identity as a musician?

PATTI - I was quite young I started painting and drawing. I was in high school and I learned from Robert. When Robert and I lived together, he inspired me to continue to paint and draw. We did a lot of work together. I learned from working, painting and drawing. I studied several other artists’ work and visited museums. I don’t have any formal training but I really studied and learned from others.

JULIE - When you began working on the album Horses with John Cale after Clive Davis signed you to Arista records, did you ever imagine that it would become one of the 100 best albums of all time?

PATTI - No. When we recorded Horses in 1975 I imagined it appealing to the disenfranchised or to people like myself... or more mavericks... or those outside society. I never dreamed it would have such a life. It’s a beautiful thing. It seems to resonate even now. It’s a compliment that new generations find it inspiring and are listening to it. 

JULIE - Are you going to produce a new album?

PATTI - Yes, I am recording right now. However, I am also working on several other projects. I started recording and hope to finish a new album later this spring. 

JULIE - In Dream of Life you reference several musicians: Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, Mick Jagger, and Jim Morrison. Have all these figures been equally influential to you?

PATTI - Bob Dylan was my biggest influenced me from those listed because he influenced in many ways: everything from his image to the way he dressed to his body language to his mergence of poetry to his rock’n’roll to his sense of being aware of the world around him. Oh, and his humanistic aspects…. his sense of humor.

JULIE - Several of your pictures at Robert Miller were taken with a Polaroid Land 250 camera. Do you still have it and use it?

PATTI - Oh yes, I still have and use my Polaroid. I stockpiled the film. I am sure someone like Fuji will continue producing the film. I think Fuji is trying to make a type of instant film camera. But of course, there’s nothing like Polaroid.

JULIE - Many photographers these day are using digital cameras. Have you tried one or do you still like to use your trusty Polaroid?

PATTI - I haven’t used a digital camera yet. I have used my iPhone for my website and it works quite well. I suppose in the near future I will use a digital camera. But for right now, I am still using my Polaroid. I feel really grateful to shoot with film. But film is not very environmentally friendly. There are reasons to change. So maybe I should try something new.

JULIE - There is a scene in Dream of Life where you wonder aloud what is in a Prada bag. Do you wear Prada? Who is your favorite designer? 

PATTI - It wasn’t my Prada bag in the movie. But I did  joke around in the movie and had a little fun. I do like Prada, but my favorite designer is Ann Demeulemeester.

JULIE - Are there three words that describe your friend and collaborator Steven Sebring?

PATTI - A good brother.

JULIE - How would you describe the experience of following Patti around for eleven years to make your Dream of Life documentary?

STEVEN - I wasn’t really out to make a movie about Patti. Most of the time I was out with Patti and I didn’t have a movie camera. I was learning about her first. I was building trust and a relationship. When I started, it was an organic process that just happened. Then we started thinking maybe we should make a movie out of this. I got a great editor and finished it. There was never a crew. Nothing was preset. We just hung out. I never asked Patti any questions. If she wanted to tell me something, she would.

JULIE - Would you repeat the process?

STEVEN - No, I wouldn’t do it again unless that person was interesting. Patti really captured my heart. Now that I have done my first full-length film, I am more interested in doing a fictional film. I am not into making documentary films. You have to give a documentary at least five years and revisit that person. I don’t know, maybe I would… the person would have to be pretty extraordinary.

JULIE - What are your fondest scenes?

STEVEN - I love those with her mom and dad who have passed away and those of the dog and the house. The Rimbaud scene is very magical. It just fell into place. There isn’t just one scene that I love. All the scenes are so different. I love the war-protesting scene. I love the Israel scene. But the Rimbaud scene is the most poetic.

JULIE - You have collaborated with Patti again for the “Objects of Life” exhibit. How did you and Patti decide to work together on the on it? Who had the idea?

STEVEN - I  had the idea. When I was filming her in her bedroom during the editing process, Patti was talking to me about pieces, which I call artifacts. I was getting to know the stories about these objects. It was really cool to me because I could actually touch and feel the pieces. And with all my still life work in the past, I wanted to take pictures of the artifacts, so I asked Patti if I could. She said the pictures were so badass. So we took them to the premiere of Sundance, then to Berlin and Australia. Finally we made it to New York and did it on a grand scale at the Robert Miller Gallery. The show is a lot more full. The exhibit is a complete story here in New York, which is what Patti and I envisioned.

JULIE - What do you think gives objects like these meaning?

STEVEN - Objects have a story behind them. Seeing these things in that context and putting them behind glass makes them more precious. I find this interesting and people are intrigued by this…

JULIE - So is there an object in the show that you cherish most? 

STEVEN - I don’t necessarily cherish the objects. But I do like Patti’s childhood dress and the camera and her suitcase. I can’t just pick one. At our event last night, we talked about the pieces, everyone liked something different which makes this even more interesting to me.

JULIE - Your photography book Bygone Days was a collaboration with your great, great uncle John Penor. How did your experience working with him influence Objects of Life? 

STEVEN - Well, actually, Objects of Life has influenced my next project, which I have incorporated Bygone Days into. When Johnny passed away a few years ago, I inherited all the land, horses and the house. At the beginning of Dream of Life, the horses that were running were actually Johnny’s horses. They are Arabians. Johnny lived in that house ‘til the day he died. It’s an archeological site. When I had to go back to the house to secure it I had moments when I thought, “Am I doing this right? Where are my gloves?” I was looking up the objects from the book. Now I am working on a full traveling exhibit of Bygone Days. I hope to get the Smithsonian involved. It’s American history. I am doing a series of large format pictures of all the photos John took and plan to include pictures of his artifacts.

JULIE - Photography and filmmaking are clearly a strong part of your life. Do you feel like one is more rewarding than the other?

STEVEN - It depends on the type of pictures I am taking, but filmmaking has been the most rewarding because of Patti. I like doing portrait work and abstract nudes. I am looking to do more books and shows. I take fashion very serious and I take my art very seriously. 

JULIE - How exactly did your photography career start? 

STEVEN - My fashion career started when I was in Italy and I was shooting men’s stories. Then I moved to New York and started shooting for Ralph Lauren and then women’s campaigns and celebrity portraits. Then I met Patti... and I started shooting short films with dialogue: DKNY and New York Stories. The Fashion industry is behind the times. I started making these short stories many years ago. People are trying to catch up to this part of fashion and film, still no one is doing this. No one wants to see another behind scenes of fashion show. I say take the responsibility and be new... do something bigger. Now we have the vehicle of the Internet. It wasn’t easy trying to stream those short films before. Now it is easy. I saw the opportunity to make a movie years ago. I also like to be diverse and make art installations and books. Companies have to start thinking on this level.

JULIE - Do you own the same camera as Patti, a Polaroid Land 250?

STEVEN - Yes, I do. I have a bunch of them. I supply film to Patti. I used to shoot a lot of Polaroid. Fuji still makes film for the Polaroid. I am going to shoot Patti again and use Polaroid again. 

JULIE - Patti is obviously a very special person in your life: a dear friend, a collaborator, and even your son’s godmother. Through the years you have spent with her, how has Patti influenced your life?  

STEVEN - I have learned so much from her. She has introduced me to poets like Rimbaud and Blake. She is politically outspoken. I love her as an artist and she keeps true to herself and the things she does.

JULIE - What three words describe Patti?

STEVEN - Soulful, beautiful, inspiring.